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Enable / Disable "System"

Enable / Disable "System"

Postby MACK » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:18 am

I am using the Network / Cloud Firewall Control.
Currently, I can pick from several "Users" but none of them is "System".

There is something called "Any User"... but by choosing that ... am I allowing the application to be run by ANY User?

Is there a way to add the "System" as a user so I can control how System can be used?
MACK
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby VistaFirewallControl » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:24 pm

>I am using the Network / Cloud Firewall Control.
>Currently, I can pick from several "Users" but none of them is "System".

W7FC enumerates all the users available for the enumeration.
The list does not include specific accounts.
If you do need several special accounts listing please contact us directly.
There probably will be no problem to add some accounts promptly.

>There is something called "Any User"... but by choosing that ... am I allowing the application to be run by ANY User?

Actually settings “Any User” means ignoring the user name filed from the filtering parameter.
So ANY user will follow the permissions set to the application.

>Is there a way to add the "System" as a user so I can control how System can be used?

We should investigate the problem in depth. We are not sure regarding the practical usage of the user name utilization. The system user is used to launch system services mostly and the services can’t be launched in the name of other user and vice versa. So setting ANY user for services is functionally equal to setting SYSTEM.
For other processes can be launched in the name of other (normal) users setting SYSTEM is rather senseless, as the processes will hardly be launched in the name of SYSTEM
VistaFirewallControl
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Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby MACK » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:31 pm

The problem I am having is as follows:

1. dns.exe is executed under 2 account users. The "administrator" and _____________________ (Appears to be SYSTEM).
Feedback_001.png
Feedback_001.png (18.4 KiB) Viewed 1822 times


However, the User is not listed as "SYSTEM" in the above screenshot, it is in fact "SYSTEM" per the "Blocked Events" tab.

Originally, I gave permissions to Administrator for "Domain Name System (DNS) Server. But this was not enough, because events from user "SYSTEM" were blocked.
Even tho I am logged in as Administrator, the SYSTEM user seems to be requiring access to allow dns.exe to function.
(If I DisableALL for the 2nd Domain Name System (DNS) Server (which has NO user visible)... this blocks the dns.exe


So for example:
Let's say I have 2 Users (Administrator, and Public User)
Let's say there is SYSTEM program called "WindowsUpdate.exe"

I only want WindowsUpdate.exe to work when I am signed on as Administrator.

When the blocked event shows up... I pick user Administrator, EnableALL
Now, another blocked event comes up with BLANK User... so, I try again, and select Administrator , EnableALL

So, the problem is, I only want the Administrator to be able to allow the SYSTEM to use WindowsUpdate.exe
But, I don't want ANY OTHER user to use it.

So, I just want to confirm... that by choosing "Any User"... does this mean the "Application" will function on ANY account?

because, I only want it to function on "Adminstrator" account.
MACK
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby VistaFirewallControl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:56 am

>1. dns.exe is executed under 2 account users. The "administrator" and _____________________ (Appears to be SYSTEM).

The panel displays permissions set to the application, not a user the application is running in the name of.
So ____________ (no user specified) means the permissions are set to all users except Administrator, as the Administrator has the dedicated entry.

>However, the User is not listed as "SYSTEM" in the above screenshot, it is in fact "SYSTEM" per the "Blocked Events" tab.

The blocked pane displays the real user the applications was rejected for.
So most probably there is just a misunderstanding.

>I only want WindowsUpdate.exe to work when I am signed on as Administrator.

The logic is different. Probably WindowsUpdate will be just launched as SYSTEM in spite of the logon user. So only WindowsUpdate for SYSTEM makes sense.
Obviously you can set WindowsUpdate permissions for any user, but those entries will never be triggered.

>When the blocked event shows up... I pick user Administrator, EnableALL
Now, another blocked event comes up with BLANK User... so, I try again, and select Administrator , EnableALL

There could be a simple explanation. W7FC relies on the blocking events provided by the system core. So if the core specifies the user incorrectly (for a random reason) W7FC has nothing to do but to get the core specified value. We would need to reproduce.


>So, the problem is, I only want the Administrator to be able to allow the SYSTEM to use WindowsUpdate.exe

WindowsUpdate is probably launched by the system, not by you, so you are not able to determine the launching user. As the result you will not be able to set the permissions directly.
You should try to implement the policy with an alternative technique. A firewall probably can’t help unfortunately. Windows should have a native option to control WindowsUpdate availability (disabling for non-admins) for instance….

>So, I just want to confirm... that by choosing "Any User"... does this mean the "Application" will function on ANY account?

AnyUser sets equal permissions to an application launched on any account.
You are not always able to determine account the application is launched in the name of unfortunately.

Sorry, have not we missed something important and did realize the problem correctly?
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Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby MACK » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:02 pm

Hypothetically, for discussion: If we assume there are 3 user types

1. System derived user of "unknown" that launches things like WindowsUpdate and other services.
2. Administrator
3. User (any other user besides 1 or 2)

Let's say we want WindowsUpdate to ONLY function when Administrator is Logged in...

Is it not possible to create something like a PAIRED Authority Enable for an Application as follows:

Application: Logged in USER: Requesting User: Access:
WindowsUpdate Administrator SYSTEM EnableALL
WindowsUpdate User SYSTEM DisableALL

This would prevent WindowsUpdate from functioning when User is logged on.

(Obviously, this would work for other program applications, not just WindowsUpdate)

It is preferable that certain Applications (especially certain System launched Applications) cannot connect to internet under User, BUT can be run as Administrator. ;)
Thanks
MACK
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby VistaFirewallControl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:15 pm

Unfortunately, there are no technical dependencies between system running services and logon user.
The services are launched by the system itself, _before_ any user is logged on, the services are not user dependent by nature.
So, in spite of a logon, the services will run in the name of system only.
Even if a user decides to stop/start a service, the next service launch will be in the name of system as well. There is no way to launch a service in the name of a non-system account.
A non-system service will probably just not work due to lack of permissions to required components (files, registry, etc)
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Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby MACK » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:53 am

So, its not possible to add: DisableAll_Until_Login
application name: foo diableALL_Until_Login (would block application until a user logs in and automatically apply the logged in user privilege to the application when logged in)

This seems odd to me.

W7FC Already blocks ALL "applications" until it receives a permission by the User.

Why can't it be setup to automate it as follows:
1. Block any application having "Disable_ALL_Until_Login" while user is not logged in.
2. Give the appropriate "Zone" of permission after user logs in to application based on which user "logged in"
3. Logoff: removes permission
4. Reboot: auto removes permission

This appears to be possible Manually... why not allow automation of this process?
MACK
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby VistaFirewallControl » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:55 am

>So, its not possible to add: DisableAll_Until_Login

Login is not a subject of the firewall at all.
Any system has a lot of various processes running in the name of different users at once, despite whether the users logged on.
The firewall “sits" “below”, at the system core level and is invariant to logged “above” users.
If a process utilizes the network the firewall is informed about the utilization parameters and the process issued the utilization. Every process has a “parent” user, so the process user is the parameter as well. Anyway, the process user, not a logged on user.

>This appears to be possible Manually.
How?
Moreover there could be multiple users logged at once.
The firewall does not control the process launching; it’s the different, non-firewall task.

Following your scenario:
if a permitted user is logged on, the permissions are set to enable, and everyone logged to the PC at the same time obtains the enabling permissions.
It's not what you are looking for probably.

FYI: Such automation can be done with Network/Cloud edition via logon/logoff scripts
but concurrent permissions settings via concurrent logons will produce ambiguous results.
VistaFirewallControl
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Re: Enable / Disable "System"

Postby MACK » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:14 am

I understand now. Thanks.
MACK
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 am


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